Interview with
| Gwen in doubt by Details Magazine 1997 |
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GWEN STEFANI'S SURVIVED A FRIEND'SSUICIDE, A FLOP RECORD, AND A BAND THAT WAS SET ON SELF-DESTRUCT.NOW SHE'S AN INTERNATIONAL SEX SYMBOL WITH A HIT RECORD, A HIPBOYFRIEND, AND A WHOLE NEW SET OF TROUBLES. Imagine being in high school back in themid-'80's. You play piccolo in the marching band. You hate math.You're a little shy of confidence and creativity. And a littlechubby. One day your older brother brings home a record by anutty English group called Madness. It's rad and it totallychanges your life. You hang out with all the punkers and mods andstart making your own clothes. Then your brother decides to forma band and makes you the lead singer. You are Gwen Stefani,sixteen going on seventeen. Weeks, months, years fly by. It is 1992.A lot of crazy shit has gone down. You have lost your othersinger to suicide. Your trumpet player gets his girlfriendpregnant and quits. You have a new guitarist, drummer, andbassist. Your band, No Doubt, releases a debut that tanks, soyour record company blows you off. By 1995, you've been dumped byyour boyfriend, the bass player. So you sing a song about it,"Don't Speak," written by you and your brother, who'sjust quit the group, and it sends your second album, TragicKingdom, to the top of the charts. It is 1997 and you are GwenStefani, twenty-seven, multiplatinum queen of pop. This is a really exciting time to beGwen Stefani. And a confusing one. Her fashion aesthetic has beencelebrated in Women's Wear Daily, but Newsweek called her a"skank." Critics question her credibility because sheis from unhip Anaheim in Orange County and plays hugelysuccessful, hugely catchy music. Her first hit, the feminist-lite"Just a Girl," has become an anthem of empowerment forher massive teenage female following, but she has always dreamedof being married and having kids. She is Doris Day in a tank topand bondage pants. It is unlikely that she will ever be thesubject of a Camille Pagila essay. There's more. Her low-profilerelationship with Bush's lead singer, Gavin Rossdale, has givenbirth to high-octane rumors that they are (a) engaged, (b)married, (c) having a love child, (d) none of the above. (Thecorrect answer is d.) She is suspected of being both a musicindustry marionette and a martinet, the de facto leader of theband, a future solo artist and movie star. (She has already metwith three top Hollywood agents.) Not suprisingly, Gwen hasreservations about this story focusing on her, and the band wageda small, uncivil war over it. I asked bassist Tony Kanal about allthis. None of the band want to contribute to a story about justGwen, but he responds diplomatically: "Before this recordcame out, we were always a band, a democracy-this was never anissue. There's a natural tendency for the media to gravitatetoward lead singers-particularly females-and if you've seen Gwenperform, you can see that she deserves it. It's not somethingwe've been dealing with for a long time, but I think we've gottenused to it." Gwen acknowledges that it's a problem they maynever fully resolve. It's no coincidence that the video for"Don't Speak" was a narrative in which the band watchGwen be singled out for the cover of a magazine. "We were on tour for too long andwe weren't getting along," says Gwen. "We thought thesaddest thing we could do was a video about the band breaking up,'cause we really thought we might." She is insistent aboutone thing: "It's not like Gwen Stefani and the No Doubtbackground loser boys," she declares. "I would feelnaked without them." Oh. And all this sex symbol stuff.Don't even go there. "I think earlier on there were ideasthat since I'm a rock chick that I would be some slutty wildwoman, and I'm totally the opposite. People are suddenly startingto accuse me of selling myself, like obviously I knew that tenyears down the line if I kept it up, I would make some money offthis belly button." SCENES FROM AN AWARDSSHOWThe camera crews recording the celebrityarrivals at the American Music Awards never see Gwen Stefani. NoDoubt are late, and as nominees for Best New Pop/Rock Artist,they have to be seated. Pronto. No time for photographs. Gwen,very '40s-cover-girl gorgeous, swoops in, confiding to a friend,"What about my nails not being done?" After No Doubt lose the Best New Artistaward to Jewel, Gavin Rossdale sends an emissary to bring Gwenbackstage. Sitting on his lap, she is anything but inconsolable.Soon, however, she looks the slightest bit worried. "My bandis probably wondering where I am." Gavin and his band, who are nominatedfor Best Alternative Music Artist, head down to the auditoriumwith Gwen in tow. "Let's go and watch the other cuntswin," Gavin says, looking straight at me. "And you canquote me on that." Smashing Pumpkins take home the trophy.Typical. It is no small irony that Bush and NoDoubt are on Trauma Records. Each band suffers from an identitycrisis. Bush, who are English, have outlasted their Americangrunge counterparts; Americans No Doubt are toffee-flavorednew-wave ska. In a sluggish musical economy, these bands are agenuine, organic phenomenon. Unfashionably pop, they have shiftedsome ten million units for their label, yet they command nothingbut abuse from music critics. Their lead singers are held up to astrange double standard: Too pretty To mean it. If misery lovescompany, Gwen Stefani and Gavin Rossdale are made for each other. After the show, the slip off to BeverlyHills for a private party for Bush. When she's in town, Gwenstill lives at home, so her whole family is here, too. Gwencuddles her baby sister Jill's brand-new daughter, Madeline.Later on, she returns to Gavin's lap. He holds her gently, onhand just underneath the back strap of the dress he bought herespecially for tonight. I NEXT MEET GWEN STEFANI FOR DINNER ATTHE SWANK MAY FAIR hotel in London. No Doubt are here to promotetheir European tour. She has a Bloody Mary. (She's not much of aboozer. The last time was when No Doubt celebrated hitting numberone. Tequila shots. "Self-torture," Gwen deadpans.) Sheorders pasta and a salad. Healthy. I want something meaty. So Iask her about the men in her life. There are two things Gwencares deeply about. What her parents think and what her fansthink. "I believe that sex is a sacred, private thing,"she declares. When it comes to men in her life, therehaven't been many. In the summer between eighth and ninth grade,there was Brad, her first French kiss. He had braces. In bandclass, she met a bad boy in band class who had hair like RobertSmith and an uncontrollable urge. "Every day I would just befighting him off," she recall. Once, she had a mild case ofgroupie-it is: "I made out with the keyboard player fromFishbone, and he tried to take advantage of the situation and Iwas not about to, and he got really mad." She remembers the day she met Tony Kanalwhen he came to audition for the band. "He had on whitehuarache sandals and white baggy pants, and his hair was out likefull funk, like really into Prince. I was really into dark guysthen, and he has such a dark sense of humor, I couldn't helpliking him." For nearly eight years they were joined at thehip. The relationship grew lopsided: She heard wedding bells; hesought space. He was a gentleman, Gwen says. "He did staywith me way longer than he wanted to." On Tragic Kingdom,they sugarcoated the bitter pill of their relationship andcreated modern bubblegum pop. They still had their friendship,and how they had success. "It's scary to think I could loveTony so, so much, and that now I can have a life without him.It's so scary that there's nothing you can do to guaranteeanything is gonna be permanent." In February of '96, she found herself onthe road with Bush. No Doubt's leg on the tour was supposed tolast three weeks. It stretched on for three months. On the thirdday she knew. "I was worried I was going to have to hide inmy bunk, 'cause there's no way I was gonna start hanging out withsome dude who's in a band that every girl wants to fuck."She winces. "Sorry, Mom," she says into the taperecorder. The last thing she wanted was anothermusician. "But who am I ever gonna meet who is honestlygonna love me for who I am and not want my money? That's why Ithink me and Gavin have hooked up. We talk about, 'Dude you're afox! Quick, give me a kiss'- like two normal people that justwanna take a break from their work lives and hang out with eachother." Gavin Rossdale has it all. "He'sthe most sickeningly romantic guy I've ever met. And on top of ithe's physically perfect-and I'm not even into that." Still, he's a London guy, she's aCalifornia girl. They haven't talked about their relationship inthe press before "because we really haven't known where westood. Why should we tell everyone else what's happening when wedon't even know?" Gwen is certain of one thing: "If Iget a crush on someone, that's that. My whole life is directedaround that. I can't help it. I love love." SCENES FROM A CHILDHOODGwen Renee Stefani was born October 3,1969. Her first memory is of her and her brother Eric stealingOreos from the kitchen, scraping out all the white stuff andmaking a big ball out of it. She was a girlie girl, playing babydolls, house, and dress-up. Her big brother was " anutcase," always drawing cartoons of her and pounding on thepiano every morning. "He was the one with all the talent; Iwas like Eric's little toy. He forced me to sing." (I tellEric this and he laughs: "I'd use the word 'begged.' Ididn't take a whip to her. She had a great voice and she wasreally cute and had her own thing going.") Her fifty-something parent, Dennis andPatti, were once in a folk band called the Innertubes. Mom playedautoharp; Dad played guitar. There was a lot of Dylan on thefamily turntable. "Gnarly," Gwen recalls. She preferredshow tunes: The Sound of Music, Annie, Evita, Kermit the Frog's"Rainbow Connection." She did sports. Water ballet. Soccer."Mostly for fitness reasons," she says. "Mygrandma was one of those really obese women-I think that reallyfrightened my mom, you know?" At twelve, Gwen was put on astrict diet. "It was out of my mother's love for me. I don'tknow if that's so good for a kid to be concerned over that soearly. I think it's haunted me in a way." Her Catholic parents were veryprotective. Before she saw Flashdance, her parents lectured thewhole family about he heroine's sexual mores. For her graduationGwen had to go to Disneyland instead of the usual hotel partiesand had to be home by midnight. Six years ago, her dad took thefamily on a Rootslike trip to Italy. "It was like strictrules," Gwen remembers. " 'We're going there to se thechurches and the art, and you can't talk to boys, and you have towear long dresses with your shoulders covered.' " She wastwenty-one. Gwen couldn't believe some of her highschool friends hated their parents. Hers did nothing so sternthat she had to hurl the F-word at them like some other girls.She did use the word onstage, against her mother's wishes, at ashow that Mom had invited relative to, and for a week mother gavedaughter the silent treatment. I call her mother. "Thatword?" she asks. "That's what you wanted to interviewme about? I was quite shocked that she put that in her act. Iknow it's really common for young people, but I hated to see heraccept it." At least she isn't pierced or tattooed, hermother says. "Her fans can go and bleach their hair andthat'll be enough." Gwen was her daddy's girl, her mothertells me. So I speak with him, too. Having been a marketingexecutive for Yamaha, he'd worked with bands, allowing Gwen tomeet Sting and A Flock of Seagulls. He was supportive of his sonand daughter's ambitions, but concerned. "Luckily we neverhad any troubles with her drinking or taking drugs," hesays. "She's serious about doing the rock-star thing as aprofession, as opposed to "Let's go party'." And what does he think of his littlegirl becoming a sex symbol? "That's a little troublesome.She's very self-conscious about the whole thing. I think she'shit on a trend in society where blatant sexuality is relaly notwhat's happening; the healthy, athletic, happy, honest approachis where she's at, and that's why people find herattractive." And her boyfriend? "Gwen's certainly veryemotional, but I have 100 percent confidence in herjudgement." SCENES FROM A PHOTOSESSIONIn a London photo studio, wearing hotrollers, a sweatshirt that says DON'T TOUCH ME, and with a slightcase of "pillow face," Gwen still looks as fresh as abreeze on Sunday morning. I offer her a chocolate biscuit. Nothanks. "I've started my diet today." She thinks it'sridiculous that a few good photos have made people think she hasabs of steel. "More like abs of Jell-O," she says,frowning comically. There are two band photo shootsscheduled. Gwen would like a close-up of the four of them sittingin chairs; the man from New Musical Express sets up a full-lengthshot. They go through their Madness poses. Gwen focuses carefullyon each shot, chin down, eyes wide. Tony, jet-lagged, tries tokeep his open. Guitarist Tom Dumont lifts his shirt and shows offhis belly. "It's important to be comfortable with yourbody," he explains. Drummer Adrian Young agrees. "Let'sall drop our trousers and stand in our boxers," he suggests.So they do. "You guys are nasty," Gwen squeals, allboop-boop-be-doop. Next setup. "What kind ofexpression does the Melody Maker like?" Gwen asks thephotographer. She gives them plenty, directing the band to followher lead: "Look dreamy. Cock you heads this way, I'll cockmine the other way. Now smile. Give him serious pissed-offEnglish faces. Attitude. Oasis." It's almost over. "I have thisreally good idea that the New Musical Express wouldn't do,"she purrs as the band sit down side by side in the chairs."Believe me, you'll love it." -----Believe me, he does.----- IN A CAR, DRIVING FROM NEWCASTLE TOMANCHESTER, I PLY Gwen with fresh fruit. She takes out a videocamand films us, introducing me to her parents. "It's going tobe a proper, very education story. And very ladylike," shepromises. Her voice is tired-she had a problem with nodes lastyear-so for a whiile she quietly does vocal exercises that soundlike gargling and bees buzzing. She's a bit embarrassed; I tryhard not to laugh. She's a delight, sweet and sincere,totally enjoying the success she feared might never happen."I get my jollies singing onstage. Sometimes I feel a littleguilty, like maybe something's wrong with me that I need thatattention." Autograph hounds? "No big deal. Unlessyou're really busy and trying to buy tampons and it takesforty-five minutes because everyone: Her mom. Her fans. Her band.Herself. Sometimes she must feel like Gwenderella at a quarter tomidnight. Later we talk about her place in rockherstory. In the late '80's, all the bands in Orange County werepunk-rock boys. No Doubt were different: Their herky-jerky skawas fun, their lineup was interracial, and there was Gwen."At first other girls would snarl and be jealous, like, Whydoes she have to right to even be up there? "Now, Gwennotes, "there's this real bond that happens and it's kindalike girl power. They can come to our shows and get in the pitand feel aggressive." It isn't always empowering. When NoDoubt played a prochoice benefit, the not-very-political Gwentold the audience, "If I got pregnant right now, I wouldn'tget an abortion. But isn't it cool that nobody can tell me what Ican and can't do?" Afterward, she says, "theorganization was like, 'We would've never asked Gwen Stefani tobe involved if we know she was going to say that.' " That'shypocritical, says Gwen. "They were pro-abortion, notpro-choice." She also has discovered that even in thelate '90's, boys will be pigs. At one concert, she was singing"Just A Girl" and heard the audience chanting, "Imlike, 'Cool, they're really getting into it.' And then all of asudden it's 'Show me your tits!' I'm up there making a pointabout how I feel being a chick. Even though maybe the song is notas cool as a Courtney Love song, it is my life and how I've beenmeant to feel throughout ten years of being in a man's busines,and suddenly they just totally miss the whole point and I justfeel like a whore. Like, what am I doing up there in front of allthese boys with a little top on? Maybe I'm asking for it, youknow?" She's been through worse in the ongoingsoap opera of No Doubt. There was John Spence's suicide nineyears ago. "When you're that age and you don't even know theperson is having problems, it comes as a complete shock."The band was constantly on the verge of breaking up. After theirquirky, not very listenable debut album flopped, they preserved.They had a loyal local following (Gwen's red vinyl ContempCasuals dress from the cover of Tragic Kingdom is enshrined inthe Newport Beach Hard Rock Cafe), so they released their own CD,The Beacon Street Collection. "Interscope never knew what todo with us. They were still telling us to turn the guitars up andtry to be grunge." Eventually the music business wore Ericdown, and he left to pursue a career in animation. (He has noregrets. He's working on a short film, has a new band, and maywrite with No Doubt in the future, he tells me.) "Then Tonysplit up with Gwen, "I just had to grow up whoosh and becomemy own person in the last two years." SCENES FROM APROMOTIONAL TOURNo Doubt are just getting started inBritian, so Tom and Gwen spend four days visiting radio stations,playing unplugged versions of "Don't Speak" and"Just a Girl." (It pay off brilliantly; two weekslater, "Don't Speak" will enter the U.K. singles chartat number one.) At Viking FM in Hull, Tom answers all thequestions put to him by soloing on his guitar. On their way out,off the air, Gwen says goodbye to Cameron, the wacky DJ, in herbest rock-chick manner: "Thanks for playing our fuckingrecord!" At Hallem FM in Sheffield, she does aspirited, sarcastic version of "Just A Girl" andhushed, poignant rendering of scats, and sing-sobs her waythrough the song. Afterward, in the lobby, she stands inher full-length leopard coat, looking like Bonnie without herClyde. (Gavin picked it out. "I said, 'What am I going to dowith a pimp coat like that?' And now I wear it all thetime.") She's starved. "Dude," She tells Jasper,the jolly promo guy from the record company, "my stomachlining is digesting itself." We buy sandwiches at a gas stationminimart. Tom and I spot a headline on a men's magazine: BRIDGETFONDA PUTS THE ASS IN THE ASSASSIN. We open it and look; Gwendoesn't. Later she tells me she doesn't think pornography shouldbe banned, it just makes her feel sorry for everyone involved. In the car, she says, rather tounge incheek, "There's a new controuversy." Tom and Tony wereoffered the cover of Guitar magazine without her and Adrian."Of course they'll do it," Gwen say. We talk about howNo Doubt was offered the cover of Rolling Stone, and how thatmagazine reader's poll ranked the group as the second-best newband while its critics named them the third-worst. "That'sstupid. Don't put both in then," she says. "It justmakes the magazine look dumb." WE ARRIVE IN MANCHESTER TO DISCOVER THATBUSH ARE playing two hours away. Despite her grueling schedule,Gwen wants to go. Her logic is compelling-"Dude, I do thisall the time. I'm a rock chick"- but in the end she's tooexhausted. At dinner, Gwen consoles herself with a sip of redwine and some passion-fruit sorbet. "Whatever you order fordessert," she warns me, "you'd better be prepared togive up a forkful." Maybe it's the diet she's on, maybe it'sjust the way she talks, but it strikes me that every time Gwentries to explain No Doubt, she uses unappetizing food metaphors.The group is a "watere-down version of Two-Tone." Therecord, a "salad of stolen devices." No Doubt is"dessert: We don't claim to be a main meal." It's as ifshe's apologizing for making music that's so delicious. I chideher for it. She takes the bait. "We never claimed to besaving the world with this- these are pop songs. But they alsoare song from my life. So if you say they have no depth ormeaning, it's like, well neither does my life, and neither doesmy life, and neither does that whole horrible time period ofbreaking up with the boy of my dreams. It's like, Fuck you."Which, in its way, is like punk rock. And her mom may not likeit, but it's also very, like, Gwen Stefani. |
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